Top RCN Commander says “We need all 15 CSC frigates”

By David Dunlop, 2 October 2022

The head of the RCN, Vice-Admiral Angus Topshee, has recently defended and commented to the Canadian Press (CP) that the RCN really needs all 15 Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC) Type 26 Frigates at a minimum in order to carry out all missions given to them by the government. His comments come on the heels of rumours in government circles that the number may be reduced to no more than 12 of modern frigates because of inflation costs. See https://ca.news.yahoo.com/navy-commander-defends-15-warships-170131591.html

8 thoughts on “Top RCN Commander says “We need all 15 CSC frigates””

PASSEDMOST
3 October 2022, 7:56 pm

Based on Canadian defence procurement experience, if Topshee does not push for all 15 CSC for the Navy then the program would just drag on forever until type 26 become obsolete. But in order to save money, I believe we can make do with 10 Aegis-equipped CSC and buy 10 additional cheaper baseline type 26 similar to the RN version. Topshee said 15 is the minimum. This can limit the capital investment into the program and get more ships out of the budget. To be honest, RCN does not need to carry a large Aegis radar for most missions. Even Americans sometimes complain about the cost of all Aegis fleets and operating costs. THE RN baseline type 26 would work for less air-defence intensive missions. Such as ASW and ASuW. Trade 5 Aegis CSC for 10 Multi-Mission CSC seems to be a good deal to me. (Crewing issues excluded)

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- David Dunlop
  5 October 2022, 10:04 am
  
  Hello PASSEDMOST. In my opinion, the RCN Commander is trying to quickly bring this issue to the forefront in order to move the CSC Type 26 Frigate program along. Whether the RCN gets less than 15 “front line” frigates will eventually be a political decision that future governments will have to grapple with against the future capabilities of the RCN. Your concept of building 10 “front-line” Aegis style CSC Type 26 Frigates and then another 10 less capable “base-line” RN Type 26 Frigates is just not in the cards and goes against what Canada’s Defence policies are trying to accomplish which is to have 15 highly capable ships to replace both the Iroquois and Halifax class ships with one very capable ship class that can do both AAW/ASW as well as a Surface/Land Attack capability. To have 10+10 CSC Frigates is just not feasible, would cost much more than what the 15 CSC Type 26 Frigates are already costing. You are correct though on one thing — we would never be able to crew the extra 5 more “baseline/RN Type 26 frigates”. 15 “Front-Line” CSC Frigates is the bare minimum for what the RCN needs to accomplish their missions required by the government and all Canadians. Let’s just see what happens in the future.
  
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Bill Featherstone
4 October 2022, 4:57 pm

I agree with Topshee, and then some! In today’s geopolitical atmosphere, and the war-mongering from Putin, it’s not the time to be counting pennies when dollars are required. Incipient war posturing is never cheap, but trying to ramp up after the fact is potentially disastrous! I am well aware of the political expediency of military spending that the electorate has been clamouring about since the end of the Cold War…Just look at the sorry state of our ability to put personnel on board ships today!

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- David Dunlop
  5 October 2022, 10:09 am
  
  Hello Bill. Totally agree with all of your comments. Now is not the time to even think of pinching pennies as you say with what is happening globally today. Thanks for your input. Cheers!
  
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  - Bill Featherstone
    6 October 2022, 2:13 pm
    
    Hi David. Might I throw into this conversation another thought. We also need to be thinking seriously about a couple of Nuc boats or AIP capable replacements for the Victoria’s. Their maintenance vs operational costs must be escalating. Not sure if our comments make a difference, but I like to think that someone who can make a difference reads them from time to time!
    
    BTW, I’m from another Naval era, Caddies etc. (1960-1970), so I may be slightly tainted with some of my views!!
    
    Reply
    - David Dunlop
      8 October 2022, 7:33 am
      
      Hello Bill. Yes, Canadian SSNs or possibly Type 216 AIPs would be near the top of my list as well and having been in the “Mob” for over 41 1/2 yrs, I know all about ‘Caddies”. Served on a couple myself. No helos or hangars! Yes!!!!!!!!!!!
      
      Reply
      - Bill Featherstone
        16 October 2022, 8:06 pm
        
        Mail visits from “Pedro” was about the limit!
Blair Shaw
21 November 2022, 2:44 pm

Indeed Canada does need a minimum number of 15 Frigates. I would also say as I’ve said before let’s have a look at doing something similar to the Absalon class.

Moreover with the Type 216 being a proposal and not built I would argue that rather than going for this design perhaps to somewhat theoretically at least help reduce costs by jumping in with the Norwegian and German type 212CD program. This program is very capable, is an enlarged version of the 212A ocean capable AIP enabled submarine which could give Canada a limited capability under the ice.

Moreover we often do joint operations with both countries so having a similar platform to them would help integrate better. I would also point out the submarine uses tried and tested technology and has a long lineage of proven success while retaining high capability.

With the type 212CD going into build shortly this would also enable Canada to acquire replacement boats for the Victorias faster potentially and being already designed and most of the equipment tested the R and D funding required should in theory be less. Moreover with a number of hulls already allocated the cost of production would be reduced not to mention the availability of spare parts would be much better than the current boats we have.

A fleet of 15 frigates and 6 submarines I would say is the minimum for the front line RCN force.

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8 thoughts on “Top RCN Commander says “We need all 15 CSC frigates””